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OS:Motor-Alternator Self-Looped System by Joe Tomicki
See Red Flags -- point to this being bogus
by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News
December 4, 2012
We just may have finally found the hero guy with a super-simple technology that he is willing to share with the planet, that is capable of powering a home using locally available, off-the-shelf components.
His particular system outputs 1500 Watts, which is enough to power a modest home, if the peak usage is carefully budgeted. A larger inverter could be fitted to the system for higher peak outputs. And the system can be set up inside the home, protected from the elements and vandalism.
The cost for components will be in the low thousands of dollars, and could even be in the low hundreds of dollars for those who are thoroughly familiar with rejuvenating batteries and sourcing good used components.
Joe Tomicki has a system [full details below] that entails hooking up a motor to an alternator that powers a bank of batteries which powers a house through an inverter (similar to a solar setup). The three batteries in series that power the drive motor are manually topped off, as needed, through a battery charger that also plugs into the inverter.
Every community has someone who can source and assemble these for people locally, not just creating affordable, clean energy, but also creating jobs.
A shortcoming of the system as presently constituted is that it requires manual monitoring and switching. Perhaps the electrical engineers and hardware programmers among you could engineer a self-monitoring and automatic-switching system that removes the human oversight requirement.
As for where the energy is coming from, my best guess is that this is a variation of the self-looped motor-generator system we have been featuring for a few months in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing.
Joe told me he has had this design functioning for about four years now, and he has sold three. He charged $1400 for the motor-alternator set-up with pullies, and the customers sourced the batteries, inverters, and battery charger.
Went 40 Cycles on One Charge
Joe also said that on the first system he built, the bank of 10 batteries on the output side went through 40 charge-discharge cycles before he had to replenish the three input batteries from the output of the bank of 10 batteries. That was probably stressing the batteries, taking them lower than they should go, and he would not recommend that for the longevity of the system.
Calling for Replications
Given the short time-fuse we are on with society's downward spiral into the financial cliff trap that the powers that be have engineered for us, to turn us all into slaves, I'm going ahead and sharing what information I have now, without first taking the time to fully vet the technology.
I'm opening this up to you, our audience, to help us validate this. Quite a few of you have all the needed parts already, or you can get them easily.
Who will be first to replicate Joe's set-up? Who will be first to boost it to 10 kW? Who will be first to wrap some automated switching into the system so that it doesn't have to be manually switched?
While Joe is willing to just give this away to the planet, I have talked him into accepting revenue from it so that we can set a precedent for other inventors who might also have simple technology, but who might not be so willing to just hand it over, getting nothing for it in return.
If you go commercial with this technology, whether from selling plans, translations, kits, components, completed units, manufacturing, distribution, franchises, etc., we just ask that you remit to NEST at 5% royalty. Tomiki has agreed to the terms of us sharing 60% of the revenue with him, with NEST retaining 40% for the administration of this project and enabling of similar projects.
Tomichi lives in the northern Dallas, TX, USA area. He is willing to allow someone to come verify his technology. We are looking for someone to visit him on behalf of NEST / PES.
Unfortunately, he doesn't presently have enough output batteries to do a demonstration. He said he needs at least 300 Ah worth on the bank end. He has the rest of the equipment.
Regarding the other three units he sold, he said that as far as he knows, one of them ran for at least two years, continuous.
Joe also said that as of now, he has not used an outside source of power to recharge any of the batteries. Yet he said that he once recharged the three 26 Ah input batteries using one 76 Ah battery.
Interview with Joe
All of this, including a description of the components needed, as well as his agreeing to these terms, is in an interview (mp3) Joe had with me on the evening of December 3, 2012. We had this page up and in our news in just over 12 hours from the time I talked to him about what he had. He first called me on November 27, 2012, and mentioned briefly what he had. I suggested he take a look at our Directory:Motor-Generator_Self-Looped_with_Usable_Energy_Left_Over page and then phone me back, to see if it is that type of system. He hadn't called back yet, so I phone him on the evening of December 3 to follow up.
Be aware that local laws are likely to have provisions about the installation of power supplies in a home. You need to take precautions to adhere to those provisions in the spirit of safety, both for the device users as well as the linemen who service the grid. Qualified electricians should be utilized for installing any home or business power systems. Any "emergency generator" scenarios should be sure to not involve connection to the grid.
This information is being presented for educational purposes.
PES / NEST cannot assume liability for what people do with these plans. You assume all risks for any experimentation and deployment you pursue.
While this set-up is quite safe, there are some dangers to be aware of and to protect against:
- Rapidly turning motor-alternator-belt apparatus.
- Sparks from batteries being shorted can cause fires or injury or explosions.
- Electricity can be dangerous if not handled properly.
- Leaking battery acid
# # #
This present page at PESWiki is the official destination for this open source project.
Joe provided these photos on the afternoon of December 4, 2012, shot that day. An explanation follows.
Click here for enlargement.
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Click here for enlargement.
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Click here for enlargement.
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Note that presently, Joe does not have a full set of batteries. So on the output side, he presently only has one battery, just as a place holder for where he suggests that ten should go.
Also, the batteries in these photos are only 26 Ah, not 100 Ah.
The large black device is the inverter. On top of it is the 36-V battery charger.
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Click here for enlarged drawing.
- DC Motor: The DC motor is connected via V-Belt in a 2.5:2.75 ratio to the 63-amp DC Alternator, at least 24 inches away from the motor.
- Alternator: The DC Alternator charges up a bank of ten 12-V, deep cycle batteries in parallel, when the bank gets below a certain voltage level, bringing it back up to "full." It's best if the battery bank is not be under load while being recharged by the alternator.
- 10-battery bank: The bank of 10 batteries runs a 1500 W pure sine wave inverter.
- Inverter: The inverter provides AC power to the home. (Any DC appliances in the home, such as computers, could be powered directly from this battery bank.) The inverter also powers a battery charger.
- Battery Charger: The 36-volt battery charger charges the three 12-V batteries in series when it gets below a certain threshold. The three batteries should not be powering the motor while they are being recharged.
- 3-battery series bank: Three 12-V, deep-cycle batteries in series (for 36V) power the 1000 W DC motor
- Repeat of the above.
No external energy input is required. This system can allegedly run until one of the components needs servicing.
Electric 36-V; 1000-W, brushed motor (could probably also use brushless). Spins at 3000 rpm.
- speed rating: 3000 rpm
- rated current: 35.6 Am
- output: 1000 W
- (not confirmed by Joe yet) http://www.petrolscooter.co.uk/electric-motor-36-volt-1000-watt-11t-8mm.html
63-Amp, by GM, with built-in regulator.
The Motor and Alternator are attached via a V-Belt pulley using standard hardware.
In his present device, the Motor pulley is approximately 2.5 inches in diameter, and the alternator pulley is approximately 2.75 inches in diameter.
The distance between the motor and alternator shafts should be at least 24 inches. If they are closer, the efficiency of the effect drops off rapidly.
There needs to be a way to tighten the belt.
The Motor and Alternator are attached to a wood base (2"x8" lumber approximately 30 inches long). The base should not contain electricity or magnetism-conducting materials.
The battery array to store the output power from the alternator consists of ten 12-volt, deep cycle, 100 Amp-hour batteries as are typically found in a solar or wind array for storage. They are wired in parallel using 6-gauge wire.
This array doesn't have to be 10 batteries. It could be more, it could be as few as two. Even one would probably be adequate to demonstrate the principle. The number of batteries depends on the storage and output need. The more batteries there are, the longer they will take to recharge, and the longer the charge will last before requiring recharge.
Instead of purchasing new deep-cycle, 12-V batteries, which can cost $250 USD each (Google), you might consider refurbishing old batteries using Bedini's rejuvenator technology that can restore them to sometimes better than factory spec condition.
Joe uses a 1500 W, pure sine-wave inverter, by PowerBright.
The brand is not important, but it needs to be "pure sine-wave" in order to properly power the battery charger, which might be messed up with a "modified sine wave inverter."
36-volt charger; 4 Amp
Recharging of the three batteries takes around 3 hours.
"The 2 wires on the side of the alternator need to be hooked up 1 to ground and 1 to the positive."
The 10-battery bank should be recharged when it drops below 11.2 Volts.
Joe says it is capable of running for 11 hours at 1500 W continuous output.
The 36-volt array should be recharged when it drops below 38 volts (full is between 40 and 44 V, depending on the battery specs).
Avoiding extremes of high and low charge on the batteries enables them to last much longer.
During continual usage of the system, recharging of the 10-battery bank typically happens daily, depending on usage. Ditto for the 3-battery bank.
- Test performance variation by changing the following:
- Distance between Motor and Alternator
- Orientation of Motor and Alternator
- V-belt pulley diameter ratio modifications from low to high ratio away from 1:1 in both directions. Find sweet spot(s).
- Try different sizes of motor, alternator, batteries, inverter, battery chargers.
- See if most of the batteries can be removed from the system so that it is closer to the self-looped motor generator paradigm, cutting costs and maintenance on batteries.
Many of the above components are likely to have a wide degree of latitude, but some things are likely to be fundamental to evoking the effect that allows free energy to show up from the environment.
- The size (power) of the DC motor and the size (power) of the DC alternator are probably important, and until the variation curves are plotted, it would be best to stay as close to those parameters as possible.
- The base holding the motor and generator should not be made of electromagnetic conductive material. Wood is recommended.
This technology was actually discovered by Joe while modifying a scooter.
He combined the components from two scooters. On the front wheel was one motor/generator, and on the back was another. He would switch between the two so that one was being charged while the other was powering the scooter.
He had the throttle for one on the right handle bar, and the throttle for the other on the left handle bar. When the charge (as shown on the charge indicator gauge) for the driver motor got below a certain point, he would switch to the other throttle, so now the system that had been functioning as a generator was not functioning as a motor.
He claims to have been able to travel 1300 miles on one charge using this setup. He could get in several days of riding, with 8 hours of travel per day.
He then thought that maybe he could use this principle to power a house. He used the 1000-W motor from the scooter in the home power system.
One of the bikes he scavenged was a Currie Asteroid with an Ultra Motor 1000 W motor. The other was a Schwinn S500. The batteries used a BlueSky controller.
Profile: Joseph Edward Tomicki
Joe is a machinist by trade. For 30 years, he has been a CNC Machinist, tool and dye maker. "I can make anything mechanical." Recently he was employed making aircraft parts.
He currently lives with his parents north of Dallas, TX.
List your replication accomplishments here: good or bad. PESWiki is publicly editable (after you get a username set up by request). If you happen to successfully replicate this set-up, please call me: 801-407-1292, so we can get the news about it up here right away.
This system by Joe Tomicki is yet another independent arrival at a phenomenon we've been compiling at Directory:Motor-Generator Self-Looped with Usable Energy Left Over.
In the News
- Featured: News > SmartScarecrow > This Week in Free Energy™ >
This Week in Free Energy™: August 15, 2013 - Best Kept Secret: Geoffrey S. Miller's Energybat Labs / Interview • Keelynet Summarizes LeClair's 3.4x Overunity Cavitation Report • Wind company willing to use their turbines as a decoy • Lindemann announces "Open System Thermodynamics" lecture • Joe Tomicki wants his Q-mo-gen validation • Chuck Pierce' Regen demo • GlobalBEM Fundrasier for Boulder Conference (FreeEnergyNews)
- Featured / OS: Electromagnetic > Self-Looped Motor-Generators >
OS: Motor-Alternator Self-Looped System by Joe Tomicki (Probably bogus) - An inventor from Dallas, TX, is openly sharing a system that entails hooking up a motor to an alternator that powers a bank of batteries which powers a house through an inverter (similar to a solar setup). The three batteries in series that power the drive motor are manually topped off as needed through a battery charger that also plugs into the inverter. (PESWiki; December 4, 2012)
- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altern8r - An open source forum for replicating, characterizing, optimizing, engineering, theorizing, manufacturing, and distributing the design by Joseph Edward Tomicki (Launched by SDA, December 4, 2012)
- Or send an email to email@example.com and respond to the auto-responder message to join the email forum.
Feel free to post your comments down below, or go to one of the forums above and comment/discuss there.
Phase Angle is Key
On December 04, 2012 12:40 PM; Vernon Roth wrote:
That phase angle is key, Sterling.
I have seen some O-U tech working on phase angle coupling between motors and generators. But tuning and reproducing is a bear. Politely speaking.
Has anyone else seen this operational?
Some relatives of mine poured a lot of money into a guy making this exact setup, and it never actually panned out. They asked me to work with him.
I was able to have some success by putting one of Sonne Ward's implosion chargers in the system so the batteries charged faster with less power. But without it, there was no over-unity. Even with it, the motor was over taxed by the alternator and the system did not last more than a few days.
I Don't See Where the Energy is Coming From
On December 4, ~2 pm MDT, Karl Palsness, a Tesla technology researcher, said:
There is no phase angle coming off a DC motor.
There is an AC component in the alternator, but no coupling between the motor-alternator.
There is nothing unusual about the components in this system. If anything, you would expect it to be very inefficient. Regular V-belts are very inefficient.
In this set-up, I don't see where energy from the environment could be coming into the system.
At least everything is easily measurable. If this system does work, you should be able to pinpoint where the excess energy is coming into the system.
In the scenarios I've witnessed, the motor has to be specially wound, or use some kind of specialized electronics. That's where we get our overunity effect.
If you run a DC motor in low rpm, you can get overunity, but it will burn up if you do it for more than a few seconds.
The guy in Indonesia is using phase angles [on an AC motor] with high current, and his machine is running hot.
[P.S. I should mention that the funding source for Karl's research, which he's been doing full-time, funded, for a decade, recently went away, so he's had to let his employees go and find other work for himself to support his family. Prior to the money running out, he had just procured some equipment to run some tests on a system not too dissimilar to this one. But that is now on hold.]
Why shouldn't it just run down over time?
On Dec. 4, 2012; 6:49 pm [GMT-7], Patrick Flanagan wrote:
I can think of ways to improve it. A little bit like what John Bedini did a long time ago.
Question is: Why should it work at all? Why shouldn't it just run down over time? Are alternators OU?
I don't see any way to get over unity to keep it going.
[If it did work,] I would use two sets of batteries to drive it, using a voltage detection circuit and a relay to switch the inout battery sets when the voltage of the drive set goes down, you switch to the charged set and put the former set on charge. All automatic. The you just have to maintain the batteries on a periodic basis.
No Evidence to Support
On December 04, 2012 7:45 PM [GMT-7], Peter Lindemann wrote:
I have to agree with Mark and Jim. If the information you have provided is accurate, and the system is made from commercially available "off the shelf" parts, including an electric motor, automotive alternator, batteries, an inverter, and a battery charger, then there is no reason to believe the system works. The "efficiencies" of these components are well known, and not one of them has an efficiency greater than 90%. With a transfer of energy, from the first bank of batteries to the electric motor, to the alternator, to the second set of batteries, to the inverter, to the battery charger, and back to the first set of batteries, figuring 90% efficiency at each stage (a very generous estimate), the system could not exceed an aggregate efficiency of 54%. The system may be "self-looped", but it will certainly not continue operating longer than the capacity of the batteries allow.
In the absence of any specifically identified "environmental gain" mechanism, I can't imagine why you would entertain the idea that this "might" be a genuine demonstration of a "self-running energy supply". From my cursory analysis, based on the information you have provided, there seems to be no evidence to support such a conclusion.
On December 05, 2012 5:53 AM [GMT-7], Matt Imber wrote:
This sounds like an interesting set-up. I don’t suppose the inventor is making claims of over-unity, as this sounds unlikely, unless the motor or alternator is modified like a Roto-Verter.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Konehead wrote:
BELOW ZERO chance this set up is overunity, let alone be able to power a house with it like he claims...
You might as well get a big stack of golf cart batteries, and run an invertor with it, then power your house with that....recharge those batteries however you want to.
Where the heck is any overunity in this system at all??
ITs a standard DC motor turning a standard generator that chareges batteris and invertor runs off the batteries. Big deal!
Just start backwards; whats the effeciency and loss from that invertor? Certainly not above 100%
Whats the effeciency and loss of that generator charging the battery stack? Again, not even near 100% and when batteris are really depleted and generator really has to work hard to charge, its much worse.
Whats the effeciency and loss from the motor itself while it chugs that genrator under load?
Same thing with the motor, uder heavy load its going to draw lots of amps get hot, be totally in-effecient maybe 20% (!)
I would agree with Peter L. in what he wrote; probably about 50% effeciency at best, and lots lots worse under any sort of heavy load.
December 4, 2012; 7:45 pm [GMT-7]
- Those who would be inclined to believe in legitimate overunity claims don't see where the excess energy could be showing up in this system that has no modifications of standard equipment.
- None of the three people who Joe said bought a system are reachable for confirmation, since their phone numbers were in a previous phone that has been lost. Their numbers are not stored elsewhere.
- Why would a person who has worked for 30 years as a CNC operator be living at home with his parents, for at least the four year duration of the alleged existence of this device?
- Joe's parents have no interest in this project.
- The only available system is sans enough batteries to operate in a closed loop manner. It has never had a full set of batteries because the parents don't want Joe running their home on this thing. It is therefore not ready for giving a demonstration.
- An intuitive didn't have a good feeling about this one from the start.
Unfortunately, after the first 24 hours of accumulating information about this, it appears that this one is most likely bogus. Joe never asked for any money, so the charge of "fraud" is completely inappropriate.
We're looking for someone willing to serve as project coordinator.
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