PESWiki.com -- Pure Energy Systems Wiki: Finding and facilitating breakthrough clean energy technologies.
Talk:Review:Electric Motor Secrets DVD by Peter Lindemann
Discussion/comments relating to Review:Electric Motor Secrets DVD by Peter Lindemann
More research should have been done before the DVD was released
On April 25, 2007, 06:04 PM John Bedini wrote:
Just some things I found out. First Tom Bearden Knew Bob Teal, Tom told me the story. Teal demonstrations were conducted in public, in that public demonstration Bob Teal would ask the engineers to explain how this works. He would fill a bath tub with water drop a wire in the tub put the light bulb in his mouth with the other wire and step into the tub. The engineers could not explain where the power came from. Tom said he never recovered any energy to the batteries in any way, but he was working on it. The power the Teal engine consumed was not much but it did reflect the torque for the power put into it. The failure was, Teal was not able to show any improvements over the DC motors at the time. With the model Peter and I built, it did perform just as Teal's, without building the magnetic shield's for the top and the sides, it performs just like Teal's motor without taking any recovery. The next thing, Peter, you must think I fell off some hay wagon somewhere, Ron Cole and I built many solenoid engines as can be see in my garage and one at the shop and I never take models apart, also the drawing of a dual acting solenoid engine can be seen in Ron's drawings, Hall Switched. The Window Motor out performed all this when it is just a motor with all the coils, and it only takes mili-amps to do it. More research should have been done before the DVD was released. I have better models in my basement which I have not shown to anybody of engines with just Iron rods, so it is not like I'm not intrigued in any of this research, I have been doing this for years.
I have kept most of this out of the public domain for this very reason. Peter might have done this work in the 1970's but you need a machine to prove your point, money is no excuse if you believe in it. The other thing is that I was out of money the same time Peter was, it did not stop me from doing my work. I don't think I should post my notes on all this work, I'm just going to put it into a book and let Tony sell it, as they are simple machines that anybody can build, they all use the recovery to charge batteries. One more thing, I must have said to you, Peter 200 times the monopole is not a motor, it's an Energizer, I have also said this many time's on all the group's. Peter should take his time and do methodical research before doing anything like this, you must know all the answers and not assume anything, as you will fail. Before you expect to build things from just theory you must prove it out as the theory never works the same way. The drawings of the little toy is in no way valid of my monopole machine in any way as it does not recover anything, it uses an autofomer arrangement, so I rest my case until proven otherwise. Peter worked here for a year and he knows I do not think in conventional terms in electronics when it comes to recovering energy, as I see something much different then he does. I have no beef with Peter, except he should have just let Gary and I see the preview like Gary asked. Doing a DVD on DC motors is one thing, as for energy recovery you are playing in a much different ballpark as is know by people who have tried. I admit I did not share everything with Peter or the groups for a very simple reason, most would not be able to use it wisely, so I keep all my models simple, just basic pro-types at the shop. I never change my routine on this, because of what happened with Jim Watson, I never forgot that lesson.
Peter Lindemann's New DVD shows no Secrets as Advertised.
On April 23, 2007, Rick Fredrich wrote:
My comments are below this relavent quote.
John_Bedini wrote in Gn0sis.com: Ted,
Also in the NEW movie, I built the engine you see running, I did the switching. as Teal's motor was not capable of charging any battery. the circuit you see with teal's drawing is not for storing energy at all. The circuit is a spark suppression for the points. The teal motor is not capable of charging batteries until you use the monopole circuit for recovery. I'm not going to say anything more. Remember closing down all the fields is not an open system, no recovery possible.
Peter L's New DVD shows no secrets as advertised.
I hesitated to post this but for the sake of the truth I had to write this. I also have no personal conflict with Peter, my last visit with him was very good. This email concerns Peter's new DVD, and the credibility of free energy videos, etc.
On my first visit (July 2005) to John's shop Peter was very nice and showed me many of John's machines. At the end he showed me this supposed Teal setup, which now I find out John really built (and not Peter, and it was also not a Teal machine but a Bedini machine). This is the motor shown in Peter's new DVD. I was allowed to film everything in the shop, and take pictures of everything but this setup. This was all hush hush, not for John but Peter everything about it was whispered. I was shown a stack of papers of old patents going back over 100 years, which John shared now that mostly came from him. So I went home wondering if this was the most important thing. I looked up the patents but did not find anything significant; and after a little experimenting went on from there to other more important setups.
The setup was what you saw, but had the hall switching, which may or may not have still been on there in the DVD. In the DVD you see no circuit but you can see 4 or 5 strands coming off of the coil and beside that another clump of strands together, which was a multistrand coil Bedini uses for stage 2 monopoles. These go to several transistors but they are not shown. All you see is a big aluminum heat sink. But the impression you get is that this is a Teal motor, which it is not as I write below.
On my last visit to the shop some weeks back Peter showed up now and then doing his own thing and adding a few comments about this window motor experiment and Mikes setup. He was filming this DVD by himself in the back. He talked to me about various points as you see in the DVD. I wasn't sure of where he was going with all this and didn't have time to get into it.
Not long after this time Aaron starting promoting Teal and this new DVD by Peter. So below you see the progress of the posts and my responses.
My concern below is this, that several things (secrets) are promised and not delivered. Secondly, we have no way of knowing if any secrets are known or if any really even exit. Thirdly, the only significant thing in this DVD is nothing new, but is John's recovery circuit. Fourthly, Teal is made to be the grand savior of the environment and world economy when nothing significant is presented of his work, while it is really John's recovery that has the most significance. Fifthly, the final motor is only theory and no demonstration is given, as well as no demonstration of Teal's motor working or recovering anything. All of this adds up to a big question of what is the purpose of the video? I am forced to say that it is not just bad editing but bad science. I only say this for the cause of truth. I wish I did not have to write this. I just cannot support these claims. Below you will see more details about specific claims in the book. Please correct me if I am wrong in any statements above or below.
Order of posts given on the Magnetricity list:
> > > > a1c3m <qiman13@> wrote:
> > > > Hi all, we had to change the web address:
> > > > Bob Teal missing interview:
> > > > You can now watch this on Youtube right on that page.
> > > > Bob Teal discussion forum about Electric Motor Secrets:
> > > > Peter Lindemann will be posting some info about his new video release in the next 24 hours.
> > > > Take care!
> > > > Aaron
> > --- In Magnetricity@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Magnetricity%40yahoogroups.com>, "a1c3m" <qiman13@> wrote:
> > > That electromagnetic piston is a pretty cool concept but in Peter's new video, he shows how he eliminated the need for that in a more simplified rotor style. Will be giving more details here:
> > > --- In Magnetricity@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Magnetricity%40yahoogroups.com>, Rick Friedrich
> > > <rickfriedrich@> wrote:
> > > > I saw Peter's first prototype on my first visit and was there when he was filming this latest film. Looks interesting. I like the monopole better but I have not replicated this yet (got started on it last year but never finished). This is one way to relatively easily replace the fuel heads on combustion engines with electric solinoid heads. And this solves the major problem with the degenerating batteries in the new hybrids...
> > > > Rick
> > Aaron,
> > I have watched the new DVD now and have not found it convincing. I don't have time to do a review of this long video.
> > Number one concern: Bob Teal's motor did not have recovery. The motor shown was not Teal's recovery but Bedini's. Teal's was fundamentally different than Bedini's in this point, also that one is electromagnet and the other is permanent magnet. The capacitor WITH resitor does not hold the juice because it is a resistor, nothing is shown to support the suggestion that this is anything more than to help reduce the arcing on the contacts. So there is nothing really important with Teal, unless there is some minor benefits with the kind of solinoid arangements.
> > I do not feel that BEMF and charging of batteries with these kind of setups is covered sufficiently or even correctly. The video starts off with conventional theory in this matter and it is hard to follow where or if he departs from that. How can conventional theory explain the charging of batteries in Bedini's recovery system? This is fundamental.
> > We do not see Teal's setup run, nor it's efficiency to be able to judge Peter's claims in this respect. However, the one shown is presented in a way that appears as if it is Teal's motor. I have seen this run in person and saw the circuit and it is not Teal's circuit (that is the motor shown running charging the battery). No testing of the torque is shown on this as on the conventional motors previously (besides a small generator powering a bulb very very shortly).
> > I'm not going to comment on the Lindermann Rotary Attraction Motor because none is shown running.
> > Everything about the DVD sounds conventional but the minor points relating to Bedini's recovery.
> > All other statements relating to other inventors were not demonstrated.
> > Further, I do not see how the COP = 8.6 near the end of the video in his COP Analysis. I don't see several points explained or supported.
> > At the very end he says "Motor designs that produce no back emf have been around for 170 years... These designs use a single electromagnet to attract a piece of iron and never use permenent magnets at all."
> > This is not correct and I wonder why this statement is made. > Perhaps this is one of the several mistakes made in the editing.
> > And what follows about Teal's system being so good was not established in the video.
> > These are my thoughts about the video in the process of watching and finishing it.
> > Rick Friedrich
> Below is the quote from the website where you order the DVD. Notice that it says that Teal's "engine produced COPs between 8 and 10." In the video I don't see any supportive statement about this claim and I don't know if it even was claimed (from the video or reading the patents myself almost 2 years ago). Maybe Teal made that claim somewhere, I would like to know that. The only statment about COP = 8.6 in the video that I remember was in reference to some kind of calculations of a solinoid setup with Bedini recovery, where 85% was factored in as recovery, so this does not at all support any COP greater than 1 with Teal. Again, without the Bedini process I don't see what is significant about all this. However, if the collapsing field pushes the rod away (while the swtich is disconnected) then I suppose you do have some additive nature in torque benefits, but the cap with resistor would seem to prevent that. Nothing is shown in the video about this because Bedini's circuit was used instead.
> Here is the quote:
> "Electric Motor Secrets by Peter A. Lindemann, D.Sc.
> Laying dormant within the modern electric motor is a deep, dark secret. For the last 176 years, that secret has held the electric motor to its present level of performance. But in 1975, a quantum leap in electric motor design was made by an American inventor named Bob Teal. Teal's Magnipulsion Engine produced COPs between 8 and 10.
> Using lab demonstrations, patents, diagrams, and private documents, Dr. Lindemann takes you on a trip through the history of electric motors, resurrecting the secret of Magnipulsion, and revealing the future of electric motor design. (2 hrs 30 minutes)"
> Here is another quote of interest:
> "After retirement in 1972, Bob and Beatrice moved from Honolulu to Madison, Florida. Like many creative people, "retirement" didn't agree with him. With nothing else to do, he decided to build a model of the sci-fi engine he had invented for his novel. It worked! The Magnipulsion Engine produced large amounts of mechanical energy while running on small pulses of DC current to its electro-magnetic coils.
> In addition, when the power coils were turned off, the circuitry could also recapture most of this input electricity from the collapsing magnetic fields to recharge his batteries or run other loads. It was a quantum leap in electric motor design."
> I don't see how the circuit would give this much mechanical, I did not see large amounts of mechanical, nor could the setup as shown in the video recapture really any of the input. The only capture was due to Bedini's recovery system placed on Peter's motor.
> Now, I just saw the short video advertisement for Peter's video and it certainly claims to use the BEMF, and it shows it supposedly running bulbs with no hinderance to the motor opperation. But this does not result from what is shown in the patents or what Peter showed of Teal's system. You would have to modify this the right way.
> What I do see is that Teal's system as shown may prevent the destructive BEMF from flowing back, by flowing into the cap while the resistor right away drains the cap but not recharging the battery. So the hindering of the BEMF makes it more efficient, but it is not captured to any use as shown. You would have to gate it out of the system the right way to be used, as John has done. If he did do that it is not shown.
> In this short clip at the end we read: "Dr. Linderman takes you on a trip through the history of electric motors, resurrecting the secret of Magnipulsion, and revealing the future of electric motor design.
> You will learn how Bob Teal exceeded 1.0 COP with his Magnipulsion motors. For the first time in history, all his secrets will be revealed."
> But this is the very thing that is not shown. We do not see a Teal motor running in the new video.
> Further, the news article listed mentions that the setup had magnets. But the new video says it only used electromagnets and no magnets. Further quote "A small magnipulsion engine could operate a home cnetral air conditioner for about 50 cents per day." This was in the seventies. 50 cents today would give you 5kwh, and back then much more. So this is not a full recovery setup, and if this was true it does not seem as powerful as made out in the video. Maybe I am missing something here.
> Finally, reading the brochure by Magneteal Industries Inc., I see no statement of its efficiencies or COP, so I don't know where these figures come from other than the Bedini modification. The paper has several questions asking this very kind of thing and all that is mentioned is that it is but a fraction of what is used in conventional systems, or that it would cost pennies a day. $0.50 a day for central air in the 1970's. Anyway, I would be curious to see any specific claims or specific circuits that show recovery.
Russel Prier <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Dont forget a wirewound resistor is also an inductor I know of one person in the US who achieved COP of 8 by pulsing a resistor in the right way and at the right frequency.
We all still have much to learn here yet.
All the best Russ P.
My point is not that Teal did or didn't have anything, but that we have not been shown how the very basic commutator switching could do 8.6 COP, which the ad said we would be shown all Teal's secrets. Just what kind of pulsing and switching is necessary to do that? No values of the little arc prevention cap and resistor are given. No instruction is given of how Teal powered those bulbs or fed it back into the front end or even if he charged other batteries. The only thing we have like this shown is the bedini circuit. I don't see any support for Teal doing what Peter claimed. Pulsed DC with conventional circuitry does not give you OU or COP 8.6. All of us have long seen this--the difference between pulsed DC and bedini recovery. The video, but for the bedini element, is conventional circuitry pulsed DC. I don't see it a secret now revealed because it only shows Teal's patent circuit and no recovery. I think the video is like an introduction to pulsed DC. Now we need to see just what is claimed, the secret of how Teal powered those bulbs with his circuit. Secondly, why conventional pulsed DC cannot produce COP over 1. We could see with those first motors shown on the bench that you cannot get this with constant current or pulsed DC. Then we could compare that with the Bedini system, as shown, and see some recovery. But if you remove the multistrand coil and transistors and put the one wire solinoid with very simple mechanical switching that Teal had with one arc prevention cap and resistor, what would you see? This is all that we have been shown that Teal had. If he had more then all Teal's secrets have not been shown. If this is all that Teal had then he had no recovery and thus far from COP 8.6. Does this make sense Russ and Aaron? Maybe I fell asleep and missed something when I watched it the other night. The question is not so much whether Teal could get 8 or 10 COP but was this secret shown? Not whether Bedini did this with a solinoid as we know John has done many things like this, but how Teal did this. The presentation puts Teal as the solution to the whole electric engine problem, but how so? Please help me understand as I am a very serious researcher.
Lindemann Rotary Attraction Motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMzSzChCkrM